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1 2 -----------------------------------X 3 In the Matter of 4 The Trusteeship Proceeding 6 Docket Number 03-21T 7 -----------------------------------X 8 11 November 13, 2003 13 14 15 B e f o r e: 16 PETER F. VAIRA, ESQ. 19 INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER. 20 21 22 23 24 25 509
1 APPEARANCES: 2 Messrs. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES 6 By: ROBERT M. THOMAS, JR., Esq., of Counsel 7 10 BY: MATTHIAS A. LYDON, Esq., of Counsel 12 Messrs. FARACI & FARACI 15 BY: PETER S. FARACI, Esq., of Counsel 16 17 PRESENT: 18 KATHLEEN M. NAGLE, Esq., Messrs. Vaira & Riley 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 510
1 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, 2 ready to go? I believe we are now hearing from Mr. 3 Thomas. 4 MR. THOMAS: Yes. At this time, assuming 5 she's here, we would like to call Debra Chianelli. 6 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Miss 7 Chianelli, if you're here. 8 Right over there, ma'am. Miss Chianelli, the 9 court reporter will administer an oath. 10 (Witness duly sworn.) 11 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Good 12 morning, Miss Chianelli. 13 This is a labor arbitration to determine -- 14 on the complaint to determine whether or not Local 1001 15 should be put into Trusteeship. I'm the Hearing 16 Officer. And you're being questioned by Mr. Robert 17 Thomas, who is from the International Union. He's 18 called the GEB Attorney. And there's a collection of 19 lawyers, a whole team, representing 1001. One is Mr. 20 Lydon, Mr. Mendenhall, and Mr. Faraci, and his father, 21 Mr. Faraci. So we'll hear from somebody. 22 MR. LYDON: I don't think his father is here. 23 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: In his 24 honor I just recognize him. 25 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, 511
1 let's go. 2 DEBRA CHIANELLI, 3 called as a witness on behalf of the Petitioner, having 4 been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 5 follows: 7 BY 8 MR. THOMAS: 9 Q. Good morning. Miss Chianelli, you and I have 10 never met or spoken, have we? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Are you a member or an employee of 1001 or 13 both? 14 A. I'm employee. 15 Q. An employee but not a member? 16 A. No. 17 Q. How long have you been employed at 1001? 18 A. Four years. 19 Q. Four years? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. So that would be since 1999? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Any particular day in 1999 do you remember 24 starting? 25 A. It was May 12th, 1999. 512
1 Q. What were you doing prior to that time? 2 A. I worked as the Director of Operations in an 3 investigative background screening company. We do 4 background screenings for the Nuclear Regulatory 5 Commission. 6 Q. Here in Chicago? 7 A. Yes. 8 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Go a little 9 closer to the mike. Okay. 10 BY MR. THOMAS: 11 Q. If I heard you correctly, you did background 12 screenings? 13 A. Yes. Security clearances for the Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission. 15 Q. That was for prospective employees coming in? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What caused you to change your employment? 18 A. It was a very stressful job. 19 Q. And how did you come to be looking for a job 20 in the Labor Union? 21 A. I had heard that Shirley Esposito was looking 22 for an assistant, and I applied. 23 Q. Okay. I don't know his relation to you. 24 Robert Chianelli is what relation to you? 25 A. He's my husband. 513
1 Q. So presumably you heard about it through your 2 husband? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Shirley Esposito had what position or has 5 what position at 1001? 6 A. She had the position of Office Manager, and 7 she was also Recording Secretary. 8 Q. So you applied to be her assistant? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And that's the job you got and took in the 11 middle of 1999. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. How many clerical people were there when you 14 started in '99? 15 A. There was two other girls and Shirley. So 16 there was three total. 17 Q. So let's -- Shirley, there was you, and two 18 other -- 19 A. And two other people. 20 Q. Who were they? 21 A. Angela Coglienese. 22 Q. You have to help us with the spelling. 23 A. C-o-g-l-i-e-n-e-s-e. 24 Q. And the other one? 25 A. Kelly Canchola. 514
1 Q. Kelly Canchola? 2 A. Yes. C-a-n-c-h-o-l-a. 3 Q. So of the four Shirley was the most senior? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What were the other positions? Did they have 6 titles, secretaries, Administrative Assistant? 7 A. One was a receptionist and the other one was 8 a dues clerk. 9 Q. Which was which? 10 A. Kelly was the dues clerk and Angela was the 11 receptionist. 12 Q. Your title would have been Assistant to the 13 Office Manager or something like that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Between the two of you, Shirley and yourself, 16 what was the breakdown in actual work responsibilities? 17 A. I assisted her in typing duties, answering 18 the phone at that point and things like that. 19 Q. Is Shirley still employed there? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did she step down? 22 A. Shirley retired. 23 Q. When did she retire? 24 A. August of 2000. 25 Q. And presumably you then became the Office 515
1 Manager? 2 A. I assumed part of her duties, yes. 3 Q. Has there been a shift in how all that's 4 divvied up? 5 A. Some of it. 6 Q. Could you explain? 7 A. I did some of the work with the death benefit 8 claims, and things like that, which now Angela does, 9 the receptionist. But I assumed most of Shirley's 10 duties. 11 Q. Thank you. 12 When you first got there, who was doing the 13 remittance reports to the Fund? 14 A. Shirley. 15 Q. And did that continue through August of 2000 16 when she retired? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. So at any point did you become involved in 19 doing the remittance reports? 20 A. Yes, I did. 21 Q. And about when was that? 22 A. I would say sometime in April of 2000. 23 Q. April of 2000? So shortly before she 24 retired. 25 A. Yes. 516
1 Q. Prior to April of 2000, had you had any role 2 at all in the preparation of the remittance reports? 3 A. No. 4 Q. So what did you -- how did you learn to do 5 remittance reports? 6 A. Shirley became ill, had to go in for surgery. 7 So that was around the end of April. And she sat me 8 down and in a half hour's time told me what to do with 9 the sheets, to copy from the month before. 10 Q. Um-hum. 11 A. That the totals were the same. 12 Q. Okay. So you had a previous month's example 13 in front of you as she was explaining this to you? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And your instructions were to simply copy 16 those numbers? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you have any other conversations with 19 anyone else about how to handle those reports? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Who would ultimately sign them before they 22 would go to the Funds? 23 A. Nick Gironda. 24 Q. And you would present them to Mr. Gironda for 25 his signature? 517
1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then were they mailed to the Funds? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did the hours ever change for the listed 5 employees? 6 A. No. 7 Q. So in the approximately three years that 8 you've been doing that the names and the hours have all 9 remained the same? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Certainly by summer of 2002 there were some 12 changes, weren't there? 13 A. If someone -- for example, Shirley, if she 14 came off -- she retired, so she would come off of it. 15 Q. Right. 16 A. So it would be minus those hours. 17 Q. Did you ever in the summer of 2002 or 18 thereafter get instructions from the Funds that some of 19 this paperwork was not proper and needed to be changed? 20 A. No. 21 Q. If you could, let's take a look at Exhibit 8 22 which is -- I'll make sure you get it. These go from 23 oldest to newest. And just so there's no confusion, 24 what we have here in Exhibit 8 is one remittance report 25 for every July for each year. We didn't obviously put 518
1 in each report all the way back. So if you would go 2 back to the back of this exhibit, the last page you'll 3 see 2003. And then as you go in you'll see 2002 and so 4 forth. 5 A. Um-hum. 6 Q. So if you page in if you could, to 2001. Do 7 you have that one? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. By the way, you were full-time all these 10 years that you've -- these four years you worked at the 11 Union, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. That's a 40 hour work week? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the other people who are full-time like, 16 let's say, Mr. Gironda, he's full-time and 40 hours a 17 week also, right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So just as we look at this one, 2000 -- the 20 year 2000 -- excuse me. 2001. We have a number of 21 people who are listed there, and some of these people 22 are listed at 160 hours and some are listed at 120. 23 What's your understanding of why there was a difference 24 between 120 and 160? 25 A. I have no idea. 519
1 Q. So this is an example of your just putting 2 the numbers down as were on the previous month? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. So other than the instruction from Shirley to 5 simply repeat the same numbers, you had no additional 6 instructions on what numbers to fill in in that right 7 column? 8 A. No, I didn't. 9 Q. With respect to your own time entry, did it 10 ever strike you as odd that you were listed as 120? 11 A. No. 12 MR. FARACI: Object. 13 BY MR. THOMAS: 14 Q. Did you have any understanding why Mr. 15 Caruso, for example, would be listed as 160 and you 16 would be listed as 120. 17 A. No. 18 Q. Then on the following page it lists a couple 19 more names, and down at the bottom it has Mr. Gironda's 20 signature. Could you just walk us through how this 21 happens? In other words, you finish the paperwork and 22 then did you hand this to Mr. Gironda or did you -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And then he signs it and gives it back to 25 you? 520
1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then you mail it to the Funds. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Is there anything else other than what we 5 just described? 6 A. No. 7 Q. So let's go down these names if we could. 8 Mr. Capasso? You know Mr. Capasso? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What position does he have with the Local? 11 A. He's an Auditor. 12 Q. How often do you see Mr. Capasso on the 13 premises? 14 A. It varies. Maybe once a month. 15 Q. Okay. And would that be for a meeting? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Floyd Grogan? What position does he have 18 there? 19 A. I believe he's an Auditor. 20 Q. How often do you see Mr. Grogan there? 21 A. I'm sorry. He's not an Auditor. He's Vice 22 President. 23 Q. Okay. How often do you see Mr. Grogan there? 24 A. A couple times a week. 25 Q. For what purpose typically does he come in? 521
1 A. Meetings. 2 Q. Craig Kumerow, was he full-time? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What was his position if you know? 5 A. Business Agent. 6 Q. Mr. Bates, do you remember what his position 7 was? 8 A. At this time? 9 Q. Either now or then. 10 A. Right now he's a Business Agent. 11 Q. And back then? 12 A. I believe he was Sergeant-at-Arms. 13 Q. Okay. So back when he was Sergeant-at-Arms, 14 how often was he there? 15 A. Once a month. 16 Q. For the meeting? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Mr. Cataudella back at the time, do you 19 remember what position he had? 20 A. He was a Business Agent. 21 Q. If I told you he was an Auditor, would that 22 sound right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So that's a different role from Business 25 Agent, right? 522
1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So as an Auditor back in 2001, how often was 3 Mr. Cataudella there? 4 A. Once a month. 5 Q. For the same meeting? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Mr. Roa, was he on the Executive Board back 8 at that time? 9 A. I don't recall. 10 Q. He was not one of the full-time people at the 11 Union itself though, was he, Victor Roa? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you see him once a month? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Same meeting? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Your husband, Robert Chianelli, if my 18 information is correct, he was a Delegate to the 19 District Council; is that right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What was his work at the time, his actual 22 job? 23 A. He worked for the City of Chicago. 24 Q. Streets and Sanitation? 25 A. Yes. 523
1 Q. So his only position at 1001 was Delegate to 2 the District Council; is that right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And he would be there once a month for the 5 meeting? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Otherwise he was working at Streets and 8 Sanitation. 9 A. It's the Department of Transportation for the 10 City of Chicago. 11 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: He would 12 also have to be -- to attend meetings in District 13 Council probably once a month, right? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 MR. THOMAS: Thank you. 16 BY MR. THOMAS: 17 Q. Okay. Then if we go forward to the next 18 year, July of 2002, at least as initially typed, the 19 names and numbers remain the same, right? 20 A. Well the form changed. 21 Q. Okay. How did it change? 22 A. There's just one total count for hours -- 23 actually it got easier. 24 Q. Help us out. What do you mean by that? 25 A. If you look back on 2001, you had to list 524
1 each week separately. 2 Q. Yes. I see. So now you just have the 3 monthly totals. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. But the monthly totals, at least as 6 originally typed, appear to be the same. Does that 7 sound right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So that's again an example of taking the 10 previous information and simply carrying it forward. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. The handwritten notes where it says for Mr. 13 Capasso: "Do not post hours per KMG, Floyd Grogan, do 14 not post hours per KMG, Victor Roa, do not post hours 15 per KMG." That's not your handwriting I take it. 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did there come a time when you got 18 instructions to make changes to how you were doing 19 things in this 2002 time frame? 20 MR. LYDON: What did you say? 21 BY MR. THOMAS: 22 Q. Did there come a time when you were given 23 instructions to change how you were completing these 24 forms. 25 A. Yes. 525
1 Q. What were the circumstances. 2 A. Just not to report certain names on there. 3 Q. Which names were those? 4 A. I believe it was James Capasso, Floyd Grogan, 5 and Victor Roa. 6 Q. Who gave you those instructions? 7 A. Nick Gironda. 8 Q. Did Mr. Gironda indicate where he got that 9 information from? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And if you'll notice, by July of 2002 the 12 numbers for your hours had gone up to 160 reflecting 13 full-time employment. Do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. At what point did you switch recording your 16 own hours from 120 to 160? 17 A. It would have to be around the same time 18 frame. I don't recall exactly. 19 Q. So when Mr. Gironda started receiving 20 information from the Funds about changes -- 21 MR. LYDON: Objection. Assumes facts not in 22 evidence. 23 MR. THOMAS: She said -- 24 MR. LYDON: She -- he says from the time Mr. 25 Gironda got evidence from the Funds. She doesn't know 526
1 that. 2 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: That's 3 true. Rephrase it. 4 BY MR. THOMAS: 5 Q. I think your previous testimony was that 6 around this time of July, 2002, you got information 7 from Mr. Gironda indicating don't write down any hours 8 for Mr. Capasso, Mr. Grogan, and Mr. Roa, right? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And your understanding was that he got that 11 information from the Funds. 12 A. I don't know that for certain. 13 Q. But it was approximately that same time, if I 14 understood your answer correctly, that you got 15 instructions to put your hours at 160. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Who else had been listed at 120 who was 18 increased to 160? 19 A. Kelly Canchola and Angela Coglienese. 20 Q. They were the two people that you've 21 identified as clerical people there? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you have any understanding of why their 24 numbers were to be increased from 120 to 160? 25 A. No. 527
1 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: May I 2 address Miss -- I'm -- when you first started, Miss 3 Esposito was the Office Manager and she was the elected 4 Recording Secretary, correct? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: How long 7 did she hold both those positions at the same time? 8 THE WITNESS: Just until she got sick, which 9 would have been from -- the time when I got there that 10 I knew of. So that would be from May of '99 until 11 April. 12 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: It could be 13 longer than that. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Now, who is 16 -- at the present time are there any office personnel 17 holding offices such as Recording Secretary? 18 THE WITNESS: No. 19 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: She was the 20 last one. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 BY MR. THOMAS: 23 Q. Miss Chianelli, from the time you started in 24 1999, you've always worked a full-time schedule, right? 25 A. Yes. 528
1 Q. 40 hours a week? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you have any understanding, going back to 4 the 2001 remittance report, why it was the remittance 5 reports would list you under actual hours worked as 30 6 hours a week rather than 40. 7 A. No. 8 MR. THOMAS: Nothing further, Mr. Vaira. 9 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. 10 Gentlemen, anything? 11 MR. LYDON: No questions. 12 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Thank you, 13 ma'am. 14 (Witness excused.) 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Okay. 16 MR. THOMAS: If Mr. Capasso is here, we would 17 call Mr. Capasso to the stand. 18 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Mr. 19 Capasso. 20 Mr. Capasso, you can take that up there with 21 you. All right, sir, the young lady will swear you in. 22 (Witness duly sworn.) 23 JAMES CAPASSO, 24 called as a witness on behalf of the Petitioner, having 25 been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 529
1 follows: 2 DIRECT EXAMINATION 3 BY 4 MR. THOMAS: 5 Q. Good morning, Mr. Capasso. 6 A. Good morning. 7 Q. You and I have never met or spoken, have we? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. My name is Bob Thomas. I work on a contract 10 basis for the International. 11 Let me first understand your professional 12 background. Do you have a college degree? 13 A. No. I did go, but I didn't graduate. 14 Q. Okay. When did you attend college? 15 A. Back in '61, '62. 16 Q. So I take it then you didn't get any degree. 17 There is no post graduate degrees. 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Could you summarize for us your employment 20 history from that time period? 21 A. Yeah. Of course I was working summers while 22 I was in school in the Streets and Sanitation for the 23 what's now called the Asphalt Section. And I worked, 24 after I got out of school, and I got a job in the 25 office at 15th and Ashland at approximately June of 530
1 1963. 2 Q. At where? 3 A. The Asphalt Section main office, and that was 4 approximately 1963. From that point on I became 5 Supervising Timekeeper. We moved over to the Bureau of 6 Equipment building in 1966. We moved over there on 7 Good Friday, 1966. And there I worked until -- at that 8 particular office until I left in '86. But I rose from 9 different positions, from Civil Service, Supervising 10 Timekeeper, to Civil Service or Career Service 11 Administrative Assistant III, to Career Service 12 Director of Administration. And then during the 13 Washington Administration they came in and created 14 Finance Officers because I was doing both operations in 15 Finance. So at that time I was given the title by the 16 Washington Administration of Supervisor of 17 Administrative -- Supervisor of Administrative 18 Services/Finance Officer because at that time they made 19 Finance Officers in every bureau of the department, and 20 I was one of them. 21 Q. And that took you up to 1986; is that right? 22 A. That's correct. And then in 1986 -- in June 23 of '86 I went over to the Pension Fund as Executive 24 Director because I was a Trustee there from, I believe, 25 December of '67, '68, right around that time, through 531
1 until I became the Executive Director. 2 Q. Let me back up for a second. When you first 3 became a Trustee, 1967, you would have been in your mid 4 20's? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. How did you get that job? 7 A. I was appointed by the Board, and then 8 subsequent to that every two years I had to be elected 9 by the membership. 10 Q. Membership of what? 11 A. The City of Chicago employees who belonged to 12 the Laborers' Annuity Benefit Fund of Chicago. 13 Q. Was it a particular Union that voted you to 14 that position? 15 A. No, not the Union, the Board of Trustees had 16 to vote me into -- as a Trustee. 17 Q. And the initial appointment was how? Who 18 appointed you initially? 19 A. The Trustees. 20 Q. So first it's an appointment and then it's an 21 election. 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. And just as though if someone dies or 25 something, the Board was able to then appoint someone 532
1 else to fill the unexpired term, and then he has to go 2 or she has to go and go up for election every two 3 years. 4 Q. Do you recall who the Trustees were when you 5 were first appointed? Do you remember any of those 6 names? 7 A. James Jardine, he was the -- Jardine 8 Filtration Plant is named after him today. 9 Q. He was an employer of the Trustees? 10 A. No. He was one of the City Trustees. He was 11 the Commissioner of Water at the time. Then there was 12 the City Treasurer, who was ex officio, then there was 13 a City Comptroller, which is ex officio. I want to say 14 at the time I came on the City Treasurer was Otto 15 Loeser, and the -- I'm sorry. The City Comptroller was 16 Otto Loeser and the Treasurer was Marshall Korshak. 17 Q. You were a timekeeper for Streets and 18 Sanitation at the time? 19 A. Supervising Timekeeper; that's correct. 20 Q. Supervising timekeeper. And you were 25, 26? 21 A. Somewhere around there. I believe I got the 22 title probably in '65, somewhere around there. 23 Q. And the Pension Fund that you became Trustee 24 of in 1967, what's the full title of that? 25 A. Laborers' and Retirement Board Employees' 533
1 Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago. Because the 2 police and the fire fund office employees are not 3 uniformed employees, so they can't belong to those 4 uniform Pension Funds. They belong to our Fund. 5 Q. And just so we're clear here, there's a 6 Pension Fund that Mr. Jorgensen currently is head of -- 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. -- and there's a Pension Fund that you're 9 currently head of. 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And they're different things. 12 A. They're different venues. Let me explain 13 that for a minute. 14 Q. Please. That was my next question. 15 The venue that Mr. Jorgensen works under is a 16 Taft-Hartley Fund who is basically run -- I mean is 17 conducted under the laws of ERISA. Now that was -- the 18 Employee Retirement Income -- in the Retirement Income 19 Security Act and John Eirlinborne (Urlinbor) (Phonetic) from Illinois 20 in the early 70's was the Illinois Congressman that 21 brought that to the Congress. So that started here in 22 Illinois. 23 So Jorgensen and the Health and Welfare out 24 in Westchester, they run under the auspices of ERISA. 25 We are a public employee Pension Fund. We are defined 534
1 Benefit Employee Pension Fund who runs not under ERISA. 2 We run under -- we mirror it, because there's good 3 government initiatives in it, but we run under the 4 State of Illinois Statutes. Our planned document is 5 based on the written and governed by Illinois Statutes, 6 the City of Chicago, and our Trustees cannot change 7 anything administratively or benefit wise unless they 8 go down to Springfield and get the General Assembly, 9 both the senators and the House of Representatives in 10 Springfield and change the law. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. That's it. 13 Q. The City of Chicago laboring employees, let's 14 say rank and file employee at Streets and Sanitation, 15 their retirement benefits would go to which Fund? 16 A. The City of Chicago employees has nothing to 17 do with Health and Welfare. All of their contributions 18 come to my Fund, Laborers' Annuity Benefit Fund of 19 Chicago. 20 Q. The answer to that is they go to your Fund? 21 A. Absolutely. 22 Q. And what's your understanding of what 23 employees would have retirement benefits -- 24 contributions rather, go to Mr. Jorgensen's Fund as 25 opposed to the rank and file Streets and Sanitation? 535
1 A. I would assume that the contractors -- I 2 believe that Mr. Jorgensen is a Multi-Employer Pension 3 Fund. And all of the contractors that have collective 4 bargaining agreements in the, I want to say District 5 Council, if I've got this right. That all of the 6 employers pay into the Health and Welfare out in 7 Westchester for their employees. It's quite different 8 because that's a Multi-Employer Pension Fund. Whereas 9 in the City of Chicago and in my Fund there's only one 10 employer. 11 Q. So if I'm getting you right, your Fund deals 12 with City of Chicago employees. 13 A. Only. 14 Q. Only. 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Non 16 uniform. 17 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. Yes, sir. 18 MR. LYDON: I couldn't hear. 19 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Non 20 uniform. 21 BY MR. THOMAS: 22 Q. Okay. Thank you. 23 And it's your understanding as well that the 24 employees of a LIUNA Local would also have their 25 benefits go to Mr. Jorgensen's Fund. They're not -- 536
1 A. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right, exactly. 2 Q. They're not City of Chicago employees. 3 A. No, absolutely not. 4 Q. So while you say ERISA may not technically 5 apply, there still are certainly fiduciary issues -- 6 A. Absolutely. 7 MR. LYDON: He's talking about -- he said 8 ERISA didn't apply to the Fund he runs. 9 MR. THOMAS: That's right. 10 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: That's what 11 he's saying. 12 Finish your question. I think you were 13 correct in saying -- 14 BY MR. THOMAS: 15 Q. So while you indicate that ERISA technically 16 doesn't apply to your Fund, there's still fiduciary 17 principles at work in your job, right? 18 A. Absolutely. 19 Q. Part of your job formerly as Trustee and 20 currently as Executive Director is to safeguard the 21 assets of these Funds for the benefit of the -- 22 A. Participants. 23 Q. Participants. 24 A. Absolutely. 25 Q. And it's your understanding and expectation 537
1 that Mr. Jorgensen has the same responsibilities with 2 respect to his Fund, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Are there systems in place at your Fund to 5 determine that the City is doing its job correctly in 6 terms of making sure that the actual contributions that 7 are supposed to be paid are paid and collected and so 8 forth? 9 A. It's a very important point. 10 Q. How does that work? 11 A. The City of Chicago every two weeks e-mails 12 us a rundown of every single employee that pays into 13 our Pension Fund. They send us basically their entire 14 process where the employee has his entire check. We 15 can see his gross. We can see his deductions. And of 16 course we look at the pension deduction. We get that 17 every two weeks. We call it a ledger card. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. That ledger card every two weeks is -- when 20 we do audit it, we audit that card and every card so 21 that every two week pay period that the correct 22 deductions are taken for -- the eight and a half per 23 cent of his gross salary is taken exclusive of 24 overtime. 25 Q. How do you audit that? You say you audit 538
1 that. 2 A. We're doing a system now that will help us 3 audit that, but that was done by hand. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. For each -- each employee for each pay 6 period, so that we can make sure that pension 7 deductions are taken for each pay period and that there 8 is no either over, where they might have taken out 9 money on overtime, because the pension deduction is 10 exclusive of overtime, or maybe the timekeeper missed 11 the deduction and they're short. If they're short, we 12 create a receivable. If they're over, we create a 13 payable. 14 Q. Okay. So you have a staff of people that 15 does that. 16 A. Absolutely. 17 Q. Approximately how many people is that? 18 A. About 19 altogether. And then these -- and 19 then this is done pay period by pay period by pay 20 period. At the bottom of that card are all the 21 deductions, eight and a half per cent, of the employee 22 is broken up into lines. Six and a half per cent for 23 his own annuity, one and a half per cent for his spouse 24 annuity, and a half a per cent for a post-retirement 25 three per cent compounded interest -- three per cent 539
1 compounded interest COLA, Cost of Living Adjustment, 2 and then of course then the City contributions come 3 into play. Those ending balances become the opening 4 balance for the next year and so on and so on, until a 5 man or lady retires, and their pension is based on the 6 highest four consecutive years of the last ten years of 7 service based on age, service, and salary. 8 Q. I don't want to cut you off, I really don't, 9 but please try to just answer the question that I ask 10 because -- 11 MR. LYDON: I think he did his best. 12 MR. THOMAS: But he went quite a bit further. 13 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: That's 14 okay. He's demonstrating the system they have. That's 15 all right. 16 BY MR. THOMAS: 17 Q. All right. And it's important to you, is it 18 not, to have the Funds get these numbers right. 19 A. Absolutely. 20 Q. Both with respect to whether the City is 21 recording the names and numbers correctly, as well as 22 that the correct amounts of money come to your Funds; 23 is that right? 24 A. Absolutely. 25 Q. So you were a Trustee -- as you rose up 540
1 through the ranks with the City, your City employment, 2 you were a Trustee for that entire 19 year period; is 3 that right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Until '86, June of '86. 7 Q. Right. And at that point you became the 8 Executive Director. 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. So you stepped down from your City employment 11 and took a full-time job with the Funds. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. By the way, is it more than Pension -- your 14 Fund, is it just Pension or is it Pension plus Welfare 15 or -- 16 A. Just Pension. The Health comes from the City 17 of Chicago. They have an active and retiree Health 18 Care Program. 19 Q. So just Pension then. 20 A. We are not Health and Welfare. 21 Q. Got it. What were the circumstances of your 22 applying for that position? 23 A. Because the Executive Director that we hired 24 a year and a half before was asked to go downstairs to 25 the Municipal Fund because the Executive Director down 541
1 there died going home one night on the elevated tracks, 2 and they wanted to make sure it was someone from 3 Chicago, so they asked him if he would not come down, 4 and I took over the position at Laborers'. It was 5 because of a death. 6 Q. I understand. But the -- what I'm really 7 getting at is did the Trustees appoint you or were you 8 asked to run? How did that work? 9 A. I was recommended by one of the Trustees. It 10 was -- I was recommended for the position, and the 11 Board approved and voted to allow me to take the 12 position. 13 Q. And was that in effect a permanent 14 appointment? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. It's not like you had to -- 17 A. No. 18 Q. -- you know, run or anything like that. You 19 got the position and that's what you've been doing. 20 A. No longer a Trustee. So you're out of that. 21 You're an employee of the Fund. 22 Q. Your pension contributions during that period 23 -- let me break this into two pieces. Prior to 1986 24 your pension contributions from the City on your behalf 25 went to the Fund that you're now head of; is that 542
1 correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. 1986 forward your pension contributions from 4 your current employment go to this -- the very same 5 Fund that you're head of as well, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So at the Fund -- 8 A. That is a condition of employment. You have 9 to. No matter if you're a City employee or in the 10 Fund, you have to pay into it, since 1935 when we were 11 created, as a condition of employment. 12 Q. So from 1963 to now your pension 13 contributions have gone to your Fund. 14 A. That's correct. 15 MR. LYDON: The initial date, '63 you said? 16 THE WITNESS: I worked summers. That goes 17 back to 1958. 18 BY MR. THOMAS: 19 Q. Okay. So it -- 20 A. If you have to look at the record -- 21 Q. Let's put it this way so we don't quibble 22 over dates. From whenever you first started at the 23 City -- 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. -- your contributions have gone to that Fund. 543
1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Could you describe in general terms your job 3 duties as Executive Administrator? 4 A. Yeah, I can. The best way I can put it on 5 the table is that I will probably somewhat quote the 6 International Foundation. I think we all know what the 7 International Foundation is. The Trustees have the 8 fiduciary responsibility to run the day to day -- I 9 mean the fiduciary responsibility to run the Fund. But 10 the day to day operation of the Fund is left to the 11 Deputy -- to the Executive Director, or in your case, 12 Jorgensen, the Administrator. The day to day 13 operations of the Fund. And that's -- you can look 14 that up in the International Foundation Employee 15 Handbook. 16 Q. I'm sure it's right. 17 How large is your staff? 18 A. About 19. Staff? My office staff. 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. Approximately 19 people. 21 Q. So all 19 are working on this audit function? 22 In other words, let me -- 23 A. Well no. There's -- 24 Q. Do you have -- are there other people other 25 than the people who do that audit function who work? 544
1 A. These people -- all of the people are broken 2 up into Administration, Payroll, Accounting, and 3 Benefits. So different -- 4 Q. For a total of 19? 5 A. Yeah. Including me. 6 Q. But all 19 of them, even though they're in 7 different departments, play a hand in that audit 8 function you just described? 9 A. No. Just in Benefits and one particular lady 10 in Accounting. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And these are all ladies that are very 13 dedicated to what they do. 14 Q. Your employment as Executive Director since 15 1986 has been continuous, has it not? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. So there's been no interruptions in your 18 service? 19 A. Never. 20 Q. And that's a full-time position. 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. Is it 9:00 to 5:00 or a little more than 9:00 23 to 5:00? 24 A. Sometimes I get there -- I have been getting 25 there years ago, a few years back at a quarter to 7:00 545
1 and would work to approximately a quarter to 5:00, 5:00 2 o'clock. Recently I've been getting there 7:30, 8:00 3 o'clock. Our hours don't start until 8:30, but I'm 4 always there early and I'm always there late. 5 Q. If you were actually to calculate the real 6 hours, it would be more than 40 hours. 7 A. Absolutely. We work a seven hour day. 8 Q. Officially, right? 9 A. Yes. 8:30 to 4:30. 10 Q. Unofficially you work -- 11 A. Oh, me, yes. But the office is open for 12 seven hours. 13 Q. Are any of your employees at the Funds 14 members of Local 1001? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Are you a member of Local 1001? 17 A. All my life. 18 Q. So other than you, no one else. 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Perhaps this is obvious, but there's -- to 21 your knowledge, there's no collective bargaining 22 agreement or anything of the sort between Local 1001 23 and your Fund, correct? 24 A. Absolutely not. 25 Q. Completely separate entities? 546
1 A. Completely separate entities. 2 Q. Your membership in Local 1001 relates back to 3 your prior employment with the City, right? 4 A. Absolutely, when I first started as a 5 youngster. 6 Q. You joined Local 1001 as soon as you started 7 working for the City? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And that would have been in the 50's? 10 A. '58 is my first time as a youngster, yes. I 11 hate to give away my age. 12 Q. I haven't asked. 13 MR. LYDON: You're younger than I am. 14 Could we go off the record for one second? 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Yes? 16 (Whereupon a discussion was had 17 off the record after which the 18 following proceedings were had:) 19 BY MR. THOMAS: 20 Q. When you first started in 1986 as Executive 21 Director, what was your level of compensation annually? 22 A. About 50. 23 Q. $50,000 a year? 24 A. Um-hum. 25 Q. What is it today? 547
1 A. 106. 2 Q. Now I assume from your position that you 3 don't have any active -- you're fully employed in your 4 current job, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. I mean it's a serious job, right? 7 A. Absolutely. 8 Q. You do not on a daily or ongoing basis have 9 any functional role that you play at Local 1001, do 10 you? 11 A. On a daily basis it depends on when I have to 12 contact them. You must understand that maybe not on a 13 daily basis, but certainly on a weekly basis because I 14 represent their participants. I am one of their 15 members. 16 Q. So you might call them for some reason. 17 A. I have, since I moved over to the Pension 18 Fund, still have a lot of issues that I could help them 19 with. 20 Q. As Executive Director of the Funds. 21 A. Yes. But as I became Executive Director, my 22 focus became more on Pension issues, issues that I 23 could talk with them about in terms of budgeting, as I 24 always did. Because before '86 there was a lot of 25 issues that I dealt with, with asphalt staffing, 548
1 lay-offs, new hires. So there's a lot involved in just 2 running the Asphalt Department and the finances of the 3 Asphalt Department. But once I became over -- to your 4 question, but once I came over as their Executive 5 Director I wasn't there on a day to day basis, but with 6 my expertise and my knowledge, it goes back so many 7 years, first of all, operations, and then secondly 8 about finances. There's where my expertise came in to 9 help them. And that has gone on ever since. But on a 10 day to day or a week to week basis I would talk to them 11 about their membership -- I deal with their membership 12 everyday. They come into my office, they ask me 13 questions. Nick or Sam or Bobby, they call me up about 14 questions about our participants. 15 Q. Let me -- I don't want to cut you off, but 16 let's make sure we're focused on the same question 17 here. When you call them or take their calls, you are 18 acting in your capacity as head of the Fund, right? 19 A. I walk a line between -- yes, basically, but 20 you have to let me answer the question. 21 Q. Please. 22 A. I walk a fine line between both the Union and 23 the Pension Fund. I represent the Pension Fund and 24 their participants. But I'm also a Union member and 25 I'm also an Auditor. So where I can help them with 549
1 their participants, or whatever I can help them with, I 2 do. I've always done that. I never -- 3 Q. When you're helping them -- 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. -- when you're helping them -- 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. -- in what capacity are you helping? What 8 title? 9 A. Both. 10 Q. Both. 11 A. Yes, sir. Because how could you distinguish 12 what is a Pension benefit that I'm helping them as 13 Executive Director, or if they ask me something, "Okay, 14 Jim, how many sidewalk crews did you have out? How 15 many hole plugging, how many street repair crews did 16 you have out? The City is trying to reduce patch 17 crews. They only want to put one crew in each 18 district." "Wait a minute, Nick," or "Wait a minute," 19 to whoever would call me. You know, there is a 20 scenario where the City has a right to protect the 21 right away in Streets and San. So they may ask me 22 questions. So how do I divide that question into-- 23 Q. When someone calls you out from 1001 with a 24 question, and you answer that question and you help 25 them, you're telling me that you're acting not as the 550
1 head of the Pension Board -- 2 A. No, I am not saying that. I am not saying 3 that. 4 Q. Let me finish the question. 5 Are you saying that you're really not acting 6 as head of the Pension, but you're acting as an Auditor 7 for Local 1001? 8 A. No, I did not say that. What I'm saying is 9 that I know I'm a Union member. I know I have this 10 affiliation. But I'm answering them with my knowledge 11 as an Executive Director with the idea that I have this 12 relationship with them. That's all. You didn't ask -- 13 you didn't relate to me what was the question. If it's 14 a question on pension issues or my -- or how we run our 15 business at our place, that's one thing. How do I 16 answer them if they call me up about past experiences 17 at the City? How would I answer that? Under what 18 capacity? Let me ask you that question. 19 Q. Mr. Capasso, you are fully employed -- 20 full-time employed with the Pension. 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. You have an officer position with Local 1001, 23 correct? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. That is not full-time employment, is it? 551
1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. It's not close to full-time employment, is 3 it? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. How often do you actually physically go to 6 the premises of Local 1001? 7 A. Whenever I'm called upon. 8 Q. How often would that be approximately? 9 A. Could be a month, once a month, it could be 10 once every three months, two months, it could be three 11 times in a month. It depends on when they call me. 12 Q. Your title there is Auditor, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What's the function of an Auditor? 15 A. The function of the Auditor is to make sure 16 that there's an audit every year. 17 Q. And you don't do that audit, do you? 18 A. No, I do not. 19 Q. So there's nothing actually for you to do as 20 an Auditor in that, right? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. They farm that out to a CPA firm, right? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. So that's taken care of, right? 25 A. Yes, sir. 552
1 Q. So your position as Auditor is really -- it's 2 a title, but there's no real auditing work for you to 3 be doing, right? 4 A. Accounting work, no. 5 Q. And so the calls you get from Local 1001 are 6 most typically pension related calls, are they not? 7 A. Both. Pension and operations. 8 Q. Operations. But operations is not the same 9 as auditing, is it? 10 A. No. 11 Q. So your title as Auditor at the Local is -- 12 that's an officer position that does not require a 13 substantial amount of your time, correct? 14 A. That's correct. 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Mr. 16 Capasso-- 17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 18 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: -- to 19 become an Auditor you have to either be appointed and 20 then run. So eventually you had to run for office over 21 there, right? 22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 23 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: And you had 24 to be in good standing to do so. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 553
1 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: That means 2 your dues have to be paid and there can't be a break. 3 I'm asking you all these questions -- you pay your 4 dues. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 6 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Is that -- 7 how do you pay them? Do you just check off -- 8 THE WITNESS: No. I was never on the dues 9 check off. Dues check off started after I left the 10 City. 11 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: You pay by 12 yourself. 13 THE WITNESS: By check, yes, sir. 14 BY MR. THOMAS: 15 Q. I just want to follow up on that and make 16 sure I understand it. 17 You write a separate check to the Local for 18 your dues? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. The term "dues check off", are you familiar 21 with that term? 22 A. Only when I hear it from the gentleman there. 23 It's -- a dues check off is that the City collects the 24 dues, as I understand it, out of the employee's check 25 and then remits that to the Union. 554
1 Q. As an Auditor you're required by the 2 Constitution to cooperate with the CPA firm that's 3 doing the actual audits for the Local, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Have you done that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So for example, in the 1990's that was Thomas 8 Havey, right? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. And to your knowledge they checked the dues 11 check off issues with respect to members of the Local, 12 right? 13 A. I did not get that finite with Thomas Havey, 14 I did not. 15 Q. But your understanding is that their work in 16 that regard means to actually look at the payroll 17 records to see that there's an appropriate deduction 18 from those paychecks, right? 19 A. I would assume so, yes. 20 Q. But in your case there's no dues check off 21 because you've written a separate check. 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. So even assuming that -- let me back up and 24 ask a prior question. 25 Do the Trustees of the Pension understand 555
1 what you've just said to us which is that part of your 2 job is acting as a Local 1001 representative? 3 A. What Pension? 4 Q. The Pension you're head of. Did the 5 Trustees-- 6 A. That I'm an officer? 7 Q. No. The question is more specific. 8 You've just described that a large part of 9 your interaction with Local 1001 members -- 10 A. I did not say a large part. 11 Q. I think it would be best if you waited until 12 the end of the question, okay, so we have the same idea 13 in mind. 14 To the extent that you interact with Local 15 1001 members, you indicated that part of that 16 interaction as head of the Pension Fund and part of 17 that is as an officer of 1001, right? 18 A. I would say yes. 19 Q. Okay. Do your Trustees know that you view 20 part of your role while you're working at the Pension 21 40 hours plus a week is actually wearing the 1001 hat? 22 A. I don't think that's a fair assessment of 23 what I think. 24 Q. Well the question was do your Trustees know? 25 A. My Trustees know that I'm an officer of Local 556
1 1001, yes. 2 Q. Do they know that when you talk to Local 1001 3 members you view yourself as acting as an officer of 4 1001 separate from your Pension position. 5 MR. LYDON: I object. That was a misleading 6 question. Go ahead. It sounds like -- he's capable of 7 answering it. 8 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: I think he 9 understands, and if you don't understand, tell us. 10 THE WITNESS: You can't put me in a situation 11 to say that every time I talk to them on the phone I am 12 relating as an officer of Local 1001. 13 BY MR. THOMAS: 14 Q. I didn't say that. 15 A. Well I think you inferred it. 16 Q. I was trying to repeat back to you what you 17 said to me and say however you would characterize those 18 interactions, do your Trustees know that you're 19 speaking to participants in a way that is somehow not 20 purely as the Executive Director of the Pension Fund. 21 MR. LYDON: I'll pose an objection. I think 22 it's a misleading question. 23 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Yeah. 24 THE WITNESS: You can -- 25 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Time out. 557
1 Time out. Let me deal with that. Your objection is? 2 MR. LYDON: It's misleading. 3 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: The issue 4 here, gentlemen, is this -- just to keep us on track. 5 I understand you want to develop this. The issue here 6 is what does he do for 1001. And in doing so you're 7 indicating that is he derelict in his duties to his 8 full-time job? Is that what you're saying? 9 MR. THOMAS: I wouldn't necessarily put it as 10 aggressively as you just did. I'm simply trying to 11 understand his answer when he says that he's actually 12 doing real work for 1001 as an officer because he's 13 taking all these phone calls when he's at the Pension 14 Board and he views that as part of his job, and I'm 15 trying to distinguish between his full-time job and 16 this other job that he's describing. 17 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: I'm sitting 18 here as a finder of fact. I'm not too concerned if 19 he's on bad paper or not with his own Fund. My concern 20 is what's going on with this Union. Now he may be on 21 good paper or they may not be crazy about what he's 22 doing, but I'm only concerned with 1001. 23 MR. LYDON: And they may be in full approval. 24 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: They may be 25 in full approval. Whatever it is. But my concern is 558
1 what he does for 1001. 2 BY MR. THOMAS: 3 Q. How many hours a week are you physically at 4 1001? 5 A. Not very many hours during the week. Usually 6 not -- 7 Q. Usually zero, right? 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. And maybe once a month you go to a meeting? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And of your, let's say, 40 to 50 hours at the 12 Pension Fund, how many of those hours do you think, 13 honestly, you are actually handling 1001 inquiries -- 14 1001 specific inquiries. 15 A. I could never quantify that. They're 16 inquiries maybe about a particular person or a 17 particular problem, but basically, you know, a lot of 18 our participants are Local 1001. 19 Q. Okay. Let me rephrase it then. Your title 20 at 1001 is Auditor, right? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. So of the calls you get relating to 1001 23 matters or 1001 members, how much -- how much of those 24 are auditing calls? 25 A. Purely auditing? 559
1 Q. Yes. 2 A. When you say you should have an audit within 3 the year? 4 Q. Yeah. In other words, that would be within 5 the title of that job description. 6 A. To be honest, nothing -- mostly -- not at 7 all. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. These are about issues that affect 10 participants of both my Fund and members of Local 1001. 11 Q. So it might be a call from a member saying, 12 "I'm not getting enough credit," or, "The numbers seem 13 to be wrong," that type of thing. 14 A. Among others of course. 15 Q. And you'll handle those and you'll deal with 16 those. 17 A. Or the Union may call and say, "We've got a 18 guy on disability," because we have ordinary disability 19 and duty disability. They have to keep track of the 20 guys that are on special duty disability. So there's a 21 lot of issues that they call about that are pension 22 issues because we pay eight and a third per cent of the 23 75 per cent. 24 Q. But on the auditing issues you're comfortable 25 with what the outside auditors have done and you don't 560
1 get those calls, do you? 2 A. No, sir. 3 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Mr. 4 Capasso-- 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 6 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: -- when you 7 were first elected Auditor, I assume somebody appointed 8 you before you ran, am I right? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 10 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Who was 11 your sponsor? 12 THE WITNESS: The President of the Local 13 asked me to serve. 14 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Who was 15 that? 16 THE WITNESS: Ernie Kumerow. 17 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: And 18 successively after that there are no contested 19 elections but you still have to be nominated. Who's 20 been your nominator or nominators over the years? 21 THE WITNESS: Various. Various of the 22 members who got up and nominated us. 23 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Okay. But 24 I'm realistic. 25 THE WITNESS: No one in particular. 561
1 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: I know how 2 unions run. 3 THE WITNESS: No, sir. 4 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Who is your 5 sponsor? Who is your power base? 6 THE WITNESS: Pardon? 7 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Who is your 8 power base? Who is your sponsor? There's got to be a 9 party and somebody's got to give you the nod. Who was 10 it? 11 THE WITNESS: To come onto the Board as an 12 Auditor? 13 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Yes. 14 THE WITNESS: Ernie Kumerow. 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Okay. 16 THE WITNESS: He was the President. And when 17 -- we're all members of the Local, and when the Local 18 asks you to serve, you're proud to serve. This is your 19 Local. 20 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: I'm just -- 21 I know that unions are political. Somebody has to have 22 a sponsor. There's nothing wrong with it. That's the 23 way the unions are, all the way up to the 24 International. 25 THE WITNESS: You see one thing, sir -- may I 562
1 make a statement? 2 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: You may 3 make a statement. 4 THE WITNESS: One thing that I think is lost 5 in this whole situation is that when you look at the 6 people that serve Local 1001, you have to ask yourself, 7 why do they serve? For what reasons did they serve? 8 The dynamics in the public arena is a lot different 9 than at the Taft-Hartley arena. The Taft-Hartley arena 10 you have union stewards out there that look after the 11 employees. But they are -- but they answer ultimately 12 to the contractor, and the contractor pays into the 13 Fund. There's a Multi-Employer Taft-Hartley, where the 14 City is one employer. And there's political dynamics 15 going on. The men that have served are probably all 16 union stewards, and it was important to have these 17 people in strategic spots around the City to help in 18 working conditions and problems in staffing, and a lot 19 of different areas. So the dynamics still go on in the 20 public arena, and the reasons for probably or asking me 21 or anybody else to serve on the Board was very 22 important to them to have someone that could work in 23 this political process, sir. 24 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: I 25 understand that. All right. 563
1 BY MR. THOMAS: 2 Q. Mr. Capasso, you said Mr. Kumerow at the time 3 was President of what? 4 A. Local 1001. 5 Q. And he was the one who asked that you become 6 was it a Trustee; is that right? 7 A. No, I never was a Trustee. 8 Q. What was the position? 9 A. Auditor. 10 Q. Auditor of the Local. Okay. 11 How did you know Mr. Kumerow? 12 A. Just as being in there. He was a Business 13 Agent for a long time before he became the President. 14 I never knew him before. I never knew of him since he 15 left, I mean in terms of ever meeting or anything like 16 that. 17 Q. Did Mr. Kumerow know that you were a Trustee 18 with the Pension Fund when you were recommended to be 19 Auditor? 20 A. Of course -- no wait. I became an Auditor in 21 '84. And I was a Trustee in '84 and Director in '86, 22 yeah. So he knew, of course. For sure he knew, of 23 course. 24 Q. That was my question. When you first got a 25 job at Streets and Sanitation, did you have any 564
1 contacts that helped you get that job? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Who were they? 4 A. My aunt. 5 Q. Who was she? 6 A. My Aunt Edith. 7 Q. Edith -- 8 A. D'Avoilo. 9 Q. Did you have to go through any Ward officials 10 to get that job? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Going back to the hours issue. If you could 13 take a look at Exhibit Number 8. I'll help you find 14 this. 15 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: All right. 16 We'll take a break. 17 (Whereupon a break was taken in 18 the proceedings after which the 19 following proceedings were had:) 20 THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER: Okay folks, 21 back on the record. 22 BY MR. THOMAS: 23 Q. Mr. Capasso, I wanted to follow up with a 24 couple of your other answers. 25 Your aunt's name was Edith D'Avoilo? 565
1 A. (Indicating.) 2 MR. LYDON: You're nodding. You have to 3 answer orally. 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 BY MR. THOMAS: 6 Q. And would that be D-i-v-o -- 7 A. No. D-'-A-v-o-i-l-o. 8 Q. Thank you. 9 You said she was your contact to get the job 10 initially at the City? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And was she employed at the City? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So how was that that she was able to help you 15 with respect to contacts? 16 A. Because she was employed at Local 1001. 17 Q. Was there somebody that she told you to go 18 talk to? 19 A. She told me to come into the office. 20 Q. To Local 1001. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. But that's not going to get you a job at the 23 City, is it? 24 A. In those days -- no, it's not going to, but 25 in those days the City would -- the unions worked very 566
1 close with the City, and in those days that -- those 2 were the days before the Shackman Decree, if you know 3 what the Shackman Decree is here in Chicago. And in 4 those days was -- were the days of a different type of 5 system for hiring and firing. Hiring and firing was at 6 the will, and the unions in Chicago had an ability to 7 send a request to City Hall to get a position. 8 Q. Do you know -- is that what happened in your 9 case? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So someone from the Union sent a request to 12 City Hall? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Who would the Union send a request to whom at 15 at City Hall? 16 A. Probably my Aunt Edith. |